Price Increase?!??

[Dave Somers]

I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month. Everyone knows that DSL is not
equivalent for those rocket fast download speeds, but what is TW
thinking in raising rates when the rest of the industry is lowering
them? I mean seriously, this is as misguided a marketing scheme as I
have ever seen.

They used to charge $5 more per month unless you had at least basic
cable. They could not justify that when they removed the ONLY reason
I had cable which was the Padres, at which time the price was the same
whether you had cable TV or not. As a long time DirecTV subscriber,
it didn't make sense to me to pay for upgraded cable service for
duplicate channels only to receive the Pads. Now, when I can get SBC
DSL for $15/month, now less than a third what RR charges, you are
providing me the best reason ever to dump cable entirely including RR.

How many customers will TW need to lose in order to realize that this
is a huge mistake?

[Frank ess]

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR
service
price is increasing by $5/month. Everyone knows that DSL is not
equivalent for those rocket fast download speeds, but what is TW
thinking in raising rates when the rest of the industry is lowering
them? I mean seriously, this is as misguided a marketing scheme as I
have ever seen.
They used to charge $5 more per month unless you had at least basic
cable. They could not justify that when they removed the ONLY
reason
I had cable which was the Padres, at which time the price was the same
whether you had cable TV or not. As a long time DirecTV subscriber,
it didn't make sense to me to pay for upgraded cable service for
duplicate channels only to receive the Pads. Now, when I can get SBC
DSL for $15/month, now less than a third what RR charges, you are
providing me the best reason ever to dump cable entirely including RR.
How many customers will TW need to lose in order to realize that this
is a huge mistake?

It seems to me what you are seeing is evidence that RR-TW is making
enough money and is well-enough entrenched that they don't think there
will be a serious effect on the number of subscribers. I doubt there
will be any roll-back if it turns out there is. Kind of like gasoline
prices, only not quite so volatile. You charge what you can, sit on
your assets until the market catches up or tells you it doesn't work.

What do you get for a week's work and aggravation? How long would it
take to cover that at $5/month? That's a consideration for me; I hate
to mess with computer stuff, and you can bet any change of services
would take that week of nonsense, and be that aggravating, getting a
new one right.

[Ferdie]

I heard this might be coming. I don't need to hold onto any email
addresses. I don't have a web page (5MB, please). So going to DSL is a no
brainer. Support is the only question mark. But I've had SBC DSL as an
alternative at work, and its been flawless for the past 5 years.

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month. Everyone knows that DSL is not
equivalent for those rocket fast download speeds, but what is TW
thinking in raising rates when the rest of the industry is lowering
them? I mean seriously, this is as misguided a marketing scheme as I
have ever seen.
They used to charge $5 more per month unless you had at least basic
cable. They could not justify that when they removed the ONLY reason
I had cable which was the Padres, at which time the price was the same
whether you had cable TV or not. As a long time DirecTV subscriber,
it didn't make sense to me to pay for upgraded cable service for
duplicate channels only to receive the Pads. Now, when I can get SBC
DSL for $15/month, now less than a third what RR charges, you are
providing me the best reason ever to dump cable entirely including RR.
How many customers will TW need to lose in order to realize that this
is a huge mistake?

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Ferdie
But I've had SBC DSL as an
alternative at work, and its been flawless for the past 5 years.

Why didn't you say so earlier?! I would have switched to SBC DSL a long
time ago! RR certainly can't even come close to flawless in a single month.

Oh yeah... DSL isn't in my area yet. Looks like I'm f'd by the monoplist
pigs again.

Scott

[Ferdie]

I just checked a binaries group, and they have over 50,000 posts in there.
I checked a few thousand, and there wasnt any incompletes. If you have any
groups in particular, I'll check them for you.

Post by Scott Lindner

Post by Ferdie
But I've had SBC DSL as an
alternative at work, and its been flawless for the past 5 years.

Why didn't you say so earlier?! I would have switched to SBC DSL a long
time ago! RR certainly can't even come close to flawless in a single month.
Oh yeah... DSL isn't in my area yet. Looks like I'm f'd by the monoplist
pigs again.
Scott

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Ferdie
I just checked a binaries group, and they have over 50,000 posts in there.
I checked a few thousand, and there wasnt any incompletes. If you have any
groups in particular, I'll check them for you.

The only groups I use seem to be alright. I don't download binaries or
anything like that. Mostly I chat on the rec.crafts.brewing group and
that's it. But to what I think you're replying to I'm more talking about
absolutely pathetic mail service, DNS service, and IP connection and latency
issues on a regular basis.

Thanks for the offer. If I ever have a problem I'll be sure to ask. Hey...
maybe there is something. Many times when posting on rec.crafts.brewing
posts will be happening left and right and then just stop for about 30 or so
minutes. Then I check an hour later and there's hundreds of posts. It's
like RR's new servers just took a nap for an hour. Is this the sort of
thing you're refering to?

Scott

[Bob Cunningham]

Yup, this will be the last straw for me too.

I can get Verizon EV-DO for $60/month and have wireless broadband
anywhere (speed roughly equivalent to DSL). So, for $10 more per month
I'd get wireless broadband and gain nationwide mobility.

As Dave mentioned, there's always SBC DSL
(http://www02.sbc.com/DSL_new/content_new/1,,18,00.html?). At $15/month
(on a 1-year contract) for 384K-1.5M bps, it's a no-brainer. It's
$25/month for 1.5-3.0 Mbps.

The DSL account also includes nationwide dialup.

And once you have SBC DSL, you can get their FreedomLink WiFi service
(http://www.sbc.com/gen/general?pid=5949#1) for as low as $2/month.
It's in Barnes&Noble, McDonalds, UPS Stores, and other places.

So, let's see: Drop RR (maybe keep TWC basic cable), and save
$50/month. Get the basic level of SBC DSL + nationwide WiFi for $17/month.

A net savings of $33/month. And you get nationwide WiFi.

Duh.


-BobC

PS: Here's the SBC DSL blurb:

SBC Yahoo!® DSL
Special Offer

Order SBC Yahoo! DSL with your SBC Total Connections for a one-year term
for as low as $14.95* per month — our lowest price available for
high-speed Internet access.

If you order SBC Yahoo! DSL with your SBC Connections, your discounted
price for a one-year term could be as low as $14.95* per month.

SBC Yahoo! provides an easy-to-use and totally customizable Internet
experience — a service that integrates the most powerful features of
Yahoo! with the convenience and reliability of SBC.

Standard Features

* More Security
* Pop-Up Blocker to help keep annoying ads at bay
* Parental controls customizable to your preferences
* Firewall software to help shield your computer from unauthorized
access
* SpamGuard to help keep unwanted email from clogging your inbox
* Email virus protection software

More Convenience

* Seamless transition from old Internet service - email forwarding,
address-change notification
* Unlimited nationwide dialup Internet access
* Personalized SBC Yahoo! DSL home page
* Customized SBC Yahoo! DSL browser
* SBC Yahoo! Photos with unlimited online storage
* SBC Yahoo! Briefcase with up to 760MB of online storage
* Three Consumer Reports® guides

Better Communication

* Enhanced email - SBC Yahoo! Mail PLUS at no extra cost with 2 GB
of storage, POP access and email forwarding
* Up to 10 additional SBC Yahoo! Mail accounts with 2 GB of storage
each, POP access and email forwarding SBC Yahoo! Messenger with
high-quality video


*You will also be charged a monthly FUSF (Federal Universal Service
Fund) cost recovery fee to help cover charges from our data transport
supplier pursuant to state and federal telecom regulations. This fee is
not a tax or government required charge.

$14.95 promotional pricing available for new SBC Yahoo! DSL residential
customers who purchase the DSL Express service. SBC Yahoo! Pro service
available for $24.99 promotional price for residential new Pro service
customers. Offers only valid for new orders placed online at www.sbc.com
or http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/; other third party channels excluded.
Static IP products not included. This online price is a limited time
offer. Offer not valid with any other SBC Yahoo! DSL promotion. SBC
local service and one year term required. $200 early termination fee. At
end of term, then-current monthly rate applies. $150-$200 additional
charge if technician install is required or desired. Equipment charges
will appear on the first bill along with any corresponding and
offsetting instant credits. Laptop users and some desktop users may need
to purchase an Ethernet card. Billing begins on service activation date.
Service not available in all areas. Subject to change without notice.
Maximum speed achieved depends on customer location. Acceptance of Terms
of Service required. Taxes and additional fees & surcharges extra. Other
restrictions apply.

SBC Yahoo! DSL is an information service that combines DSL transport,
Internet access and applications from SBC Internet Services, with
customized content, services, and applications from Yahoo! Inc. Yahoo!,
the Yahoo! logos and other product and service names are the trademarks
and/or registered trademarks of Yahoo! Inc. SBC, the SBC logo and other
product names are trademarks of SBC Knowledge Ventures, L.P. All other
brand names may be trademarks or registered trademarks of their
respective owners. ©2005 SBC Knowledge Ventures L.P and Yahoo, Inc. All
rights reserved.

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month. Everyone knows that DSL is not
equivalent for those rocket fast download speeds, but what is TW
thinking in raising rates when the rest of the industry is lowering
them? I mean seriously, this is as misguided a marketing scheme as I
have ever seen.
They used to charge $5 more per month unless you had at least basic
cable. They could not justify that when they removed the ONLY reason
I had cable which was the Padres, at which time the price was the same
whether you had cable TV or not. As a long time DirecTV subscriber,
it didn't make sense to me to pay for upgraded cable service for
duplicate channels only to receive the Pads. Now, when I can get SBC
DSL for $15/month, now less than a third what RR charges, you are
providing me the best reason ever to dump cable entirely including RR.
How many customers will TW need to lose in order to realize that this
is a huge mistake?

[Never Anonymous Bud]

Post by Bob Cunningham
As Dave mentioned, there's always SBC DSL
(http://www02.sbc.com/DSL_new/content_new/1,,18,00.html?). At $15/month
(on a 1-year contract) for 384K-1.5M bps, it's a no-brainer. It's
$25/month for 1.5-3.0 Mbps.

I'm in the middle of Linda Vista,
and SBC WON'T show me anything but 1.5m service here!




Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity...

Remove XYZ to email me

[Kenyon Ralph]

Post by Bob Cunningham
I can get Verizon EV-DO for $60/month and have wireless broadband
anywhere (speed roughly equivalent to DSL). So, for $10 more per month
I'd get wireless broadband and gain nationwide mobility.

Yeah, but I don't like this fine print too much (from
http://snurl.com/hr7t):

NationalAccess and BroadbandAccess data sessions may be used with wireless
devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and
(iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email and
individual productivity applications like customer relationship management,
sales force and field service automation). Unlimited
NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess services cannot be used (1) for uploading,
downloading or streaming of movies, music or games, (2) with server devices
or with host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web
camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over IP (VoIP),
automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file
sharing, or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated
data connections.

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Kenyon Ralph
Yeah, but I don't like this fine print too much (from
NationalAccess and BroadbandAccess data sessions may be used with wireless
devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and
(iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email and
[snip]

That's not Internet Service Providing, that is Web Browsing only providing..
or shall we say Excessively Limited Internet Service Providing. Seems like
someone could blast them for false advertising since Internet, more
correctly Internet Protocol, is an open standard that is quite clearly
defined.

Scott

[stevech]

having used EV-DO myself for a long time - for access in airports, etc. It
beats the heck out of Cingular/AT&T, Sprint etc.
But it is way too unreliable for use as a DSL alternative at home. The
problem is during the busy hours (drive-times).
It zips along at 800Kbps often. But nearly as often it falls to 100K or
less.

Almost every login session I have TCP timeouts at some point with EV-DO. I
put up with it when mobile but wouldn't be acceptable for fixed broadband.
I tried UMTS from AT&T - it is just silly.

Post by Kenyon Ralph

Post by Bob Cunningham
I can get Verizon EV-DO for $60/month and have wireless broadband
anywhere (speed roughly equivalent to DSL). So, for $10 more per month
I'd get wireless broadband and gain nationwide mobility.

Yeah, but I don't like this fine print too much (from
NationalAccess and BroadbandAccess data sessions may be used with wireless
devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and
(iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email and
individual productivity applications like customer relationship management,
sales force and field service automation). Unlimited
NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess services cannot be used (1) for uploading,
downloading or streaming of movies, music or games, (2) with server devices
or with host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web
camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over IP (VoIP),
automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file
sharing, or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated
data connections.

[Kathy]

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month.

Earthlink cable (for anyone in a TW service area) is $29.95 a month right
now.

- Kathy

[Ferdie]

http://www.earthlink.net/highspeed/pricing/

The $29.99 price goes up to $41.95 after the introductory 6 months.

Post by Kathy

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month.

Earthlink cable (for anyone in a TW service area) is $29.95 a month right
now.
- Kathy

[Kathy]

Post by Ferdie

Post by Kathy

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month.

Earthlink cable (for anyone in a TW service area) is $29.95 a month right
now.

The $29.99 price goes up to $41.95 after the introductory 6 months.

After 6 months you can go back to RR if you want and get whatever their
introductory deal is. As long as you don't depend on your rr email address.

When we were in Memphis for 6 months, we got RR for $25/month when we were
there.

- Kathy

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Kathy
Earthlink cable (for anyone in a TW service area) is $29.95 a month right
now.

That's what I'm thinking.

[David Rees]

Post by Dave Somers
How many customers will TW need to lose in order to realize that this
is a huge mistake?

I don't know, but they need to lose at least 1 out of 9 to cost them money.
If the price goes up, I will very seriously consider switching to Yahoo!
DSL, I can save at least $20/mo and I rarely need speeds above 1.5Mbps
downstream. I am already seriously considering it.

-Dave

[Scott Lindner]

Post by David Rees
I don't know, but they need to lose at least 1 out of 9 to cost them money.
If the price goes up, I will very seriously consider switching to Yahoo!
DSL, I can save at least $20/mo and I rarely need speeds above 1.5Mbps
downstream. I am already seriously considering it.

Lucky to be in an area that has alternatives. I've checked many many times
so I can get as far away from this evil monopoly as I can.

[Scott Lindner]

Yahoo sucks as an ISP I think. No free web space (they've got that
briefcase thing, but even if you subscribe you have a 1GB/month bandwidth,
metered hourly. You can't share files unless you pony up extra money.

Even

as a subscriber all you get for free is geocities.

Great points. I'm glad you're posting these facts for other people to
compare and not *just* your opinions on it.

I'm not sure about this right now, but they either already have or are
planning to get rid of pop email.

Email should never be a consideration. Get a Gmail account. You get
virtually unlimited storage space and free encrypted and authenticated POP
access. That's a lot more than you get from RR!

And they keep hosting kiddie porn, but that's another issue. I just got a
spam this morning, the third this week, for a website showing nude photos

of

girls that can't be more than 5 years old, and it's hosted on yahoo.

I'm sure the Yahoo! corporation is not the company doing this. Plus, you
are completely free on your own will to look the other way. Child
pornographers are being encarcerated all over the world in large
multi-national efforts. That should make you happy.

My issues with DSL have to do with having worked for Verizon Online for 2
years. I found out more about DSL than I ever wanted to know. All the
Verizon employees I knew who had the option had cable internet at home.

This is true with any company. Work for RR and your opinion will change
again.

Scott

[Kathy]

Post by Scott Lindner

And they keep hosting kiddie porn, but that's another issue. I just got a
spam this morning, the third this week, for a website showing nude photos
of girls that can't be more than 5 years old, and it's hosted on yahoo.

I'm sure the Yahoo! corporation is not the company doing this.

Of course it isn't Yahoo doing this. And I'm free to look the other way,
absolutely, except that before I make a complaint I will usually let at
least part of the page load to see if the site is there and if what they're
peddling is illegal.

It's not the porn I'm upset about. It's the fact that really little kids
are being abused, and the fact that they left that site up for three days
after they knew about it that bugs me.

Post by Scott Lindner

My issues with DSL have to do with having worked for Verizon Online for 2
years. I found out more about DSL than I ever wanted to know. All the
Verizon employees I knew who had the option had cable internet at home.

This is true with any company. Work for RR and your opinion will change
again.

It's not the company itself, athough it is hard to understand how Verizon
could manage their operations more inefficiently.

It's the underlying implementation of the authentication and how DSL
networks work that bothers me. Cable is far, far simpler.

- Kathy

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Kathy
It's not the porn I'm upset about. It's the fact that really little kids
are being abused, and the fact that they left that site up for three days
after they knew about it that bugs me.

That bugs me too. But blaming Yahoo isn't going to stop it at all. It
almost seems like you'd rather ignore it than acknolwedge it. Why ask for
sterlized media to the facts of the world we live in? I'd rather things be
exposed freely so we as a global society can decide what is right and wrong
as a public decision rather than our policy makers taking care of that for
us. Your posts are always about the content being up and not those that are
abusing these children. Are you priorities really that you'd rather be
ignorant? I know the answer to that question, but your behavior doesn't
match how you really feel on it. I'm intentionally asking tough questions
becuase you focus so heavily on these generic web companies when they are
NOT the problem. It's like banning guns because there are violent people in
the world. Not gonna help change a darn thing.

Post by Kathy
It's not the company itself, athough it is hard to understand how Verizon
could manage their operations more inefficiently.
It's the underlying implementation of the authentication and how DSL
networks work that bothers me. Cable is far, far simpler.

Again, subjective comparison. Have you worked for a cable company to gain
the same insights? I don't have a deep technical understanding of either
technology to appropriately compare them, but it sounds like you only
understand the one that you don't like.

Scott

[Kathy]

Post by Scott Lindner
That bugs me too. But blaming Yahoo isn't going to stop it at all. It
almost seems like you'd rather ignore it than acknolwedge it.

Do you have kids of your own?

I don't need to receive photos of preschool age white girls being raped by
adult white men in my inbox to be able to acknowledge the problem. And
since this stuff almost all comes from Russia, I can't do much about it
except report it to the FBI.

Yahoo is a U.S company that has a responsibility to enforce the laws of the
country we live in. Spam in my inbox is one thing, but this is a felony
being committed. If I can find someone I can make a complaint to who is
involved in the dissemination of this material, I make a complaint. That's
not ignoring the problem.

Post by Scott Lindner
Again, subjective comparison. Have you worked for a cable company to gain
the same insights? I don't have a deep technical understanding of either
technology to appropriately compare them, but it sounds like you only
understand the one that you don't like.

Typically when you work for a company you have to understand your
competitors as well. I understood both when I was working at Verizon 2 1/2
years ago. Maybe things are totally different now, but I expect not.

This is an oversimplified explanation, but if you've had Roadrunner long
enough to remember the TAS and all the accompanying problems and how much
the users all hated it and screamed about it, you'll get a very rough idea
of what I don't like about DSL. Thank God RR saw the light and dumped it.

When you've got DSL company execs turning down discounted DSL in favor of
cable for their personal use, that should tell you something.

- Kathy

[Never Anonymous Bud]

Using a finger dipped in purple ink, "Kathy"

Post by Kathy

Post by Scott Lindner

And they keep hosting kiddie porn, but that's another issue. I just got a
spam this morning, the third this week, for a website showing nude photos
of girls that can't be more than 5 years old, and it's hosted on yahoo.

I'm sure the Yahoo! corporation is not the company doing this.

Of course it isn't Yahoo doing this.

Yahoo is hosting WAY more than child porn, and they make it almost
impossible to get hold of a real person to tell then when you find the
porn, Phishing, and other illegal sites.

And they're almost totally unresponsive when you email them about the
same sites. Some Phish sites have been running for MONTHS, when most
ISPs nuke them within hours, if not minutes, of being notified.




Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity...

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[Scott Lindner]

Post by Never Anonymous Bud
Yahoo is hosting WAY more than child porn, and they make it almost
impossible to get hold of a real person to tell then when you find the
porn, Phishing, and other illegal sites.

You'll never stop web hosts from hosting things you don't like or are
illegal. It is far more practical to go after the crime doers themselves.
Look at piracy. They've been battling it for 25 years and where have they
gotten? They are taking the wrong approach but are starting to get wiser
about it in the last two years. They should take the same approach with
these other global menaces. Actually, I think they are with child
pornography. The trouble is, anyone with a cheap digital camera can enter
this domain and shed all tied back to them easily by erasing their CF cards.
This is a hard one to fight. I don't like it either, but going after the
ISPs just makes it harder to stop them. Again, see my piracy example.

Post by Never Anonymous Bud
And they're almost totally unresponsive when you email them about the
same sites. Some Phish sites have been running for MONTHS, when most
ISPs nuke them within hours, if not minutes, of being notified.

Yahoos' motives are obviously different since their income stream doesn't
come from the users of its services. We could try boycotting them over it.
Think it'll work?

Scott

[Kathy]

Post by Never Anonymous Bud
Yahoo is hosting WAY more than child porn, and they make it almost
impossible to get hold of a real person to tell then when you find the
porn, Phishing, and other illegal sites.
And they're almost totally unresponsive when you email them about the
same sites. Some Phish sites have been running for MONTHS, when most
ISPs nuke them within hours, if not minutes, of being notified.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Most places will have a kiddie porn
site gone in sometimes less than 5 minutes of being notified. Yahoo isn't
one of them.

- Kathy

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Kathy
Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Most places will have a kiddie porn
site gone in sometimes less than 5 minutes of being notified. Yahoo isn't
one of them.

I would suspect the difference is where their money is coming from. You are
paying Road Runner, you are not paying Yahoo. Their incentive is a bit
lower unless it offends enough people that the number of visitors hitting
their site drops enough due to it. They make most of their money from
advertising. Unlike major ISPs. Unless it is legally required, I would
never expect a company with that business model to do otherwise. Unless
somehow the model changes.... like a significant number of people boycotting
Yahoo due to this.

Scott

[Never Anonymous Bud]

Using a finger dipped in purple ink, "Scott Lindner"

Post by Scott Lindner

Post by Kathy
Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Most places will have a kiddie porn
site gone in sometimes less than 5 minutes of being notified. Yahoo isn't
one of them.

I would suspect the difference is where their money is coming from. You are
paying Road Runner, you are not paying Yahoo.

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with how fast they SHOULD react
when notified of illegal activity on THEIR service!




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[Scott Lindner]

Post by Never Anonymous Bud
Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with how fast they SHOULD react
when notified of illegal activity on THEIR service!

It's not their job to take orders for legal action based on people that are
not law officials. It's like calling the phone company and telling them
that you think two people are conspiring terrorists talking on the phone
right now and to terminate their phone call. In both examples they are
simply a service provider, not the content provider.

You can not like Yahoo for it. That's completely your choice, but there
should be no law requiring them to become law officials that rely on anyone
to pass judgement and a privately held company to do the enforcement.

Scott

[Darren New]

Post by Scott Lindner
In both examples they are
simply a service provider, not the content provider.

This is incorrect. Look up the legal term "common carrier".

[Never Anonymous Bud]

Using a finger dipped in purple ink, "Scott Lindner"

Post by Scott Lindner

Post by Never Anonymous Bud
Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with how fast they SHOULD react
when notified of illegal activity on THEIR service!

It's not their job to take orders for legal action based on people that are
not law officials.

You don't know much about the law, I see.




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[Kathy]

Post by Scott Lindner
I would suspect the difference is where their money is coming from. You are
paying Road Runner, you are not paying Yahoo.

Why are you assuming the kiddie porn people are using a free geocities
account? That would be completely impractical, the ad-supported free
geocities web hosting accounts have a monthly 1GB bandwidth limit, metered
hourly. That breaks down to something like 5MB per hour.

Now assume you're spamming thousands of people with HTML emails containing
embedded, not attached images, hosted on your yahoo web hosting account.
Let's also assume that a percentage of those people are going to visit your
website, where many more images are hosted.

Exactly how many people do you suppose would preview their email and visit
the site before they'd see that geocities page that tells you that the
hourly bandwidth of the site has been exceeded and you should try again in
an hour?

Porn sites have a requirement for high bandwidth. I thought it went without
saying that the kiddie porn site isn't ad-supported, its a paid corporate
yahoo web hosting account.

Post by Scott Lindner
They make most of their money from advertising. Unlike major ISPs.
Unless it is legally required, I would never expect a company with that
business model to do otherwise.

Yahoo is hosting illegal material depicting violent crimes being committed
against children of elementary school age and in some instances toddlers and
preschoolers. They are being paid for hosting this material by the
criminals who are perpetuated the crime.

Once they are aware of this fact, they do indeed have a responsibility to do
something, to turn over all identifying information about the perpetrators
to law enforcement, and to remove the illegal content from their site.

Even if they didn't have that responsibility, any company that would permit
that sort of stuff to sit around on their servers for several days before
getting around to removing it isn't a company that I'd care to do business
with.

- Kathy

[Frank ess]

Post by Kathy

Post by Scott Lindner
I would suspect the difference is where their money is coming from.
You are
paying Road Runner, you are not paying Yahoo.

Why are you assuming the kiddie porn people are using a free
geocities
account? That would be completely impractical, the ad-supported free
geocities web hosting accounts have a monthly 1GB bandwidth limit,
metered hourly. That breaks down to something like 5MB per hour.
Now assume you're spamming thousands of people with HTML emails
containing embedded, not attached images, hosted on your yahoo web
hosting account. Let's also assume that a percentage of those people
are going to visit your website, where many more images are hosted.
Exactly how many people do you suppose would preview their email and
visit the site before they'd see that geocities page that tells you
that the hourly bandwidth of the site has been exceeded and you
should try again in an hour?
Porn sites have a requirement for high bandwidth. I thought it went
without saying that the kiddie porn site isn't ad-supported, its a
paid corporate yahoo web hosting account.

Post by Scott Lindner
They make most of their money from advertising. Unlike major ISPs.
Unless it is legally required, I would never expect a company with
that business model to do otherwise.

Yahoo is hosting illegal material depicting violent crimes being
committed against children of elementary school age and in some
instances toddlers and preschoolers. They are being paid for
hosting
this material by the criminals who are perpetuated the crime.
Once they are aware of this fact, they do indeed have a
responsibility to do something, to turn over all identifying
information about the perpetrators to law enforcement, and to remove
the illegal content from their site.
Even if they didn't have that responsibility, any company that would
permit that sort of stuff to sit around on their servers for several
days before getting around to removing it isn't a company that I'd
care to do business with.
- Kathy

Marti Emerald will have them on the run in no time:
http://www.10news.com/kgtv/178915/detail.html

[Kathy]

Post by Frank ess
http://www.10news.com/kgtv/178915/detail.html

I tried it, we'll see.

Today's yahoo website:
http://servisnik.com

Reported at 9:45 am, to the cyber tipline and to yahoo small business web
hosting.

We'll see how long it stays up, this is the third one since Monday, all on
yahoo. Spam is bad enough, but this is intolerable.

- Kathy

[Never Anonymous Bud]

Using a finger dipped in purple ink, "Scott Lindner"

Post by Scott Lindner
Email should never be a consideration. Get a Gmail account.

GMail has POP access now?



Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity...

Remove XYZ to email me

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Never Anonymous Bud
GMail has POP access now?

Yep. Was added about six months ago.
http://www.google.com/gmail/help/whatsnew.html
Read section titled "Free POP access and automatic forwarding"

It uses certificates and is encrypted so some clients may not be able to
work with it. Most of the modern main stream clients work just fine.

Scott

[Scott Lindner]

I just got the same letter. I think I'm gonna find a way to switch. They
weren't competitive with Cox before the price hike. They certainly aren't
going to be afterward.

I believe this is because a Federal court ruling that upheld local cable
company monopolies. I'll need to dig into it to make sure I have my facts
right on that. The timing of it is highly suspicious. I hate monopolies
that abuse it.

Scott

[Never Anonymous Bud]

Using a finger dipped in purple ink, "Scott Lindner"

Post by Scott Lindner
I just got the same letter. I think I'm gonna find a way to switch. They
weren't competitive with Cox before the price hike. They certainly aren't
going to be afterward.

They don't HAVE to be competitive with Cox.
If you're in a T-W area, you're NOT in a Cox area!




Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity...

Remove XYZ to email me

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Never Anonymous Bud
They don't HAVE to be competitive with Cox.
If you're in a T-W area, you're NOT in a Cox area!

It's called Government Granted Monopoly. My point, as well as yours, is
evidence of the abuse TWC is enjoying under the protection of our US
government!

[Scott Lindner]

I forgot to add that high speed Internet access is being protected from free
martet competition under the laws created to regulate cable television
service. There is no Free Market here in San Diego for high speed Internet
access.

[Scott Lindner]

http://www.earthlink.net/highspeed/pricing/

It looks like the EarthLink introductory rate isn't even a special offer.
It is generally available. I'm gonna talk to the wife about TV service. We
typically hate TV but we've thought about it again. Until we see the prices
of course. Last time I had TV service I was paying twice as much per hour
watched for TV as I do to go to the movies! If we go with TV service we'll
stick with TWC. Since this is highly unlikely we'll probably be switching
to EarthLink. I'll make the call today and post back with the results of
the experience. Since it's all the same equipment I would suspect identical
service.

Scott

[Edwin Kruse]

Just for clarification here is the letter and the increase is only for
those customers with RR only, not all customers.

Edwin Kruse
Network Services Manager
TWC San Diego

Dear Road Runner Customer,
Thank you for subscribing to Road Runner High-Speed Online. Beginning on
10/20/05 customers who only subscribe to Road Runner High-Speed Online,
and do not subscribe to any other video services from Time Warner Cable,
will pay $49.95 per month for Road Runner High-Speed Online.

We sincerely appreciate your business and would like to highlight the
features and extras that continue to make Road Runner High-Speed Online
an even greater value. Road Runner now comes with AOL! You can add AOL’s
first-rate content (a $14.95 per month value) to your blazing-fast Road
Runner high-speed Internet connection. Already an AOL customer? With
Road Runner you get the best of both services. You keep your current AOL
IM and e-mail addresses – all from Time Warner Cable, for no extra charge.

Road Runner with AOL benefits:*
Security: The most comprehensive set of automatic safety and security
tools available are always on guard to make your fast connection safer
so you can surf the Web with greater confidence.

Exclusive Content: Road Runner with AOL brings you online access to
first-rate and exclusive content.

AOL Radio: Road Runner with AOL has the music to get your high-speed
Internet connection rocking.
AOL® Radio lets you choose from 200+ stations of commercial-free,
CD-quality music, news and sports plus over 70 XM® Satellite channels.

AOL Music Live: Your high-speed Internet connection can get you
there—but only Road Runner with AOL can get you in the door. AOL® Music
Live—an original weekly concert series—gives you a front-row ticket
to live online concerts from today’s hottest artists.

Video Mail: Road Runner Video Mail* gives you an exciting new way to
keep in touch with family and friends–either across town or across the
country.

Video IM: Tired of typing? Start talking. Now Road Runner with AOL, you
can have live video conversations via IM. All you need is Microsoft®
Windows® XP, a microphone and Webcam.

Computer Check-Up: Computer Check-Up from Road Runner with AOL fixes PC
problemsfast—automatically.

Picture Center: Turn your blazing-fast Internet connection into your own
digital photo studio. Picture Center gives you unlimited storage space
and makes it easy to edit and share your digital pictures.

Games: Road Runner with AOL turns your existing blazing-fast Internet
connection into a total gaming experience. You can play online card,
word, video games and more.

Unlimited E-mail Storage: With AOL you get unlimited space to store your
e-mails so you can save all the messages you want.

Parental Controls: Road Runner with AOL helps keep your kids safer
online. Easy-to-use Parental Controls let you be the boss—without being
the bad guy.

Road Runner with AOL gives you so many extras all at incredible speeds
and for one terrific price.

Road Runner High-Speed Online is just one of the technological
innovations brought to you by Time Warner Cable. You can keep or even
lower your monthly Road Runner rate by adding additional services like
Digital Cable, Digital Phone, or by simply adding our 20 channels of
Local Basic service for less than $12.00 a month. Call us to find the
best package for you.

Cordially,
Time Warner Cable

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month. Everyone knows that DSL is not
equivalent for those rocket fast download speeds, but what is TW
thinking in raising rates when the rest of the industry is lowering
them? I mean seriously, this is as misguided a marketing scheme as I
have ever seen.
They used to charge $5 more per month unless you had at least basic
cable. They could not justify that when they removed the ONLY reason
I had cable which was the Padres, at which time the price was the same
whether you had cable TV or not. As a long time DirecTV subscriber,
it didn't make sense to me to pay for upgraded cable service for
duplicate channels only to receive the Pads. Now, when I can get SBC
DSL for $15/month, now less than a third what RR charges, you are
providing me the best reason ever to dump cable entirely including RR.
How many customers will TW need to lose in order to realize that this
is a huge mistake?

[[e-mail]]

Post by Edwin Kruse
Just for clarification here is the letter and the increase is only for
those customers with RR only, not all customers.
Edwin Kruse
Network Services Manager
TWC San Diego
Dear Road Runner Customer,
Thank you for subscribing to Road Runner High-Speed Online. Beginning on
10/20/05 customers who only subscribe to Road Runner High-Speed Online,
and do not subscribe to any other video services from Time Warner Cable,
will pay $49.95 per month for Road Runner High-Speed Online.

Huh. Interesting. I thought that's been the deal all along. $45 for
cable TV customers, and $50 for RR-only.

Well then, I'm not quite so ticked off -- though I am *STILL* convinced
that TWC is heading in the wrong direction from everyone else in the
industry.

In the long term, that's going to get RR into trouble.

[Scott Lindner]

Be careful with how you interpret this. RR changed when federal rulings
changed based on the monopolistic abuses by these cable companies. Another
federal ruling changed recently that essentially circumvented the other one.
The root of the issue here is that TWC enjoys government protection from
competition because it is a cable television provider. TWC is
innappropriately using it's classification as a cable television service
provider that is protected by law from competition to abuse its ISP
business. Which is clearly not cable television. Search on it. There are
countless white papers, legal documents, political discussions, news reports
and findings about this very topic for over 5 years now. TWC/AOL ain't your
friend on this one. They are being very evil and as soon as the Fed
contradicted itself they jumped to continue the abuse.

[Bob Cunningham]

OK, first they take away the $5/month discount for cable+RR. Then they
charge the RR-only folks an extra $5/month.

Another way to look at this is that they are actually RESTORING the
discount, after raising the RR price by $5 for EVERYONE.

So, the net effect is that now EVERYONE is paying $5/month more for RR
than they were a while ago.

For some unknown reason, they did it in two steps instead of one. Strange.

And what do we get for our extra $5? Now everyone gets AOL! Yippee!
Wow! What a bargain!

Earthlink-BB at $30/month for 6 months, then $42/month after? Hmmm...


-BobC

Post by Edwin Kruse
Just for clarification here is the letter and the increase is only for
those customers with RR only, not all customers.
Edwin Kruse
Network Services Manager
TWC San Diego
Dear Road Runner Customer,
Thank you for subscribing to Road Runner High-Speed Online. Beginning on
10/20/05 customers who only subscribe to Road Runner High-Speed Online,
and do not subscribe to any other video services from Time Warner Cable,
will pay $49.95 per month for Road Runner High-Speed Online.
We sincerely appreciate your business and would like to highlight the
features and extras that continue to make Road Runner High-Speed Online
an even greater value. Road Runner now comes with AOL! You can add AOL’s
first-rate content (a $14.95 per month value) to your blazing-fast Road
Runner high-speed Internet connection. Already an AOL customer? With
Road Runner you get the best of both services. You keep your current AOL
IM and e-mail addresses – all from Time Warner Cable, for no extra charge.
Road Runner with AOL benefits:*
Security: The most comprehensive set of automatic safety and security
tools available are always on guard to make your fast connection safer
so you can surf the Web with greater confidence.
Exclusive Content: Road Runner with AOL brings you online access to
first-rate and exclusive content.
AOL Radio: Road Runner with AOL has the music to get your high-speed
Internet connection rocking.
AOL® Radio lets you choose from 200+ stations of commercial-free,
CD-quality music, news and sports plus over 70 XM® Satellite channels.
AOL Music Live: Your high-speed Internet connection can get you
there—but only Road Runner with AOL can get you in the door. AOL® Music
Live—an original weekly concert series—gives you a front-row ticket
to live online concerts from today’s hottest artists.
Video Mail: Road Runner Video Mail* gives you an exciting new way to
keep in touch with family and friends–either across town or across the
country.
Video IM: Tired of typing? Start talking. Now Road Runner with AOL, you
can have live video conversations via IM. All you need is Microsoft®
Windows® XP, a microphone and Webcam.
Computer Check-Up: Computer Check-Up from Road Runner with AOL fixes PC
problemsfast—automatically.
Picture Center: Turn your blazing-fast Internet connection into your own
digital photo studio. Picture Center gives you unlimited storage space
and makes it easy to edit and share your digital pictures.
Games: Road Runner with AOL turns your existing blazing-fast Internet
connection into a total gaming experience. You can play online card,
word, video games and more.
Unlimited E-mail Storage: With AOL you get unlimited space to store your
e-mails so you can save all the messages you want.
Parental Controls: Road Runner with AOL helps keep your kids safer
online. Easy-to-use Parental Controls let you be the boss—without being
the bad guy.
Road Runner with AOL gives you so many extras all at incredible speeds
and for one terrific price.
Road Runner High-Speed Online is just one of the technological
innovations brought to you by Time Warner Cable. You can keep or even
lower your monthly Road Runner rate by adding additional services like
Digital Cable, Digital Phone, or by simply adding our 20 channels of
Local Basic service for less than $12.00 a month. Call us to find the
best package for you.
Cordially,
Time Warner Cable

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month. Everyone knows that DSL is not
equivalent for those rocket fast download speeds, but what is TW
thinking in raising rates when the rest of the industry is lowering
them? I mean seriously, this is as misguided a marketing scheme as I
have ever seen.
They used to charge $5 more per month unless you had at least basic
cable. They could not justify that when they removed the ONLY reason
I had cable which was the Padres, at which time the price was the same
whether you had cable TV or not. As a long time DirecTV subscriber,
it didn't make sense to me to pay for upgraded cable service for
duplicate channels only to receive the Pads. Now, when I can get SBC
DSL for $15/month, now less than a third what RR charges, you are
providing me the best reason ever to dump cable entirely including RR.
How many customers will TW need to lose in order to realize that this
is a huge mistake?

[Never Anonymous Bud]

Post by Bob Cunningham
So, the net effect is that now EVERYONE is paying $5/month more for RR
than they were a while ago.

I NEVER got any discount for having RR and TV.

I've had both for over 8 years
and paid $44.95 for RR right from the start.

Post by Bob Cunningham
And what do we get for our extra $5? Now everyone gets AOL! Yippee!
Wow! What a bargain!

I get AOL free?? No one told ME that, or gave me an AOL login.




Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.

This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity...

Remove XYZ to email me

[Ferdie]

Wow, so all the spam I get doesn't even fall off the server automatically
anymore? I have to manually delete each one? Great feature!

I still don't understand why they just don't filter spam (even just SOME of
it) so that:
You don't need to make so much server disk space available;
Your users have a managable inbox, instead of 95% spam;
Your users don't have the risk involved with some of the malware that comes
with spam;
Your ISP partners don't have to blacklist rr.com because some user ran some
email relay program or email virus.

Post by Edwin Kruse
Unlimited E-mail Storage: With AOL you get unlimited space to store your
e-mails so you can save all the messages you want.

[Dave Somers]

Hi Edwin,

That's what bothers me so much! I paid for basic cable for several
years even though I didn't use it since I am a DirecTV customer
**just** to watch the Padres. I was willing to pay $20/month for
channel 4 alone and, at that time also, $5 less for RR. Then TW took
the Pads off of Basic cable. There was NO way I could justify $50 a
month for just channel 4 so I dumped cable TV altogether. Now you
guys are bringing back the $5 "penalty" for not being a cable TV user.

As Turko would say, "That ain't right!" TW is purposely penalizing
satellite TV users by charging more for a completely unrelated service
(not to mention monopolizing the Padres - Hey, I paid for their
stadium, too!). Something stinks here. And speaking of Turko....

Dave

Post by Edwin Kruse
Just for clarification here is the letter and the increase is only for
those customers with RR only, not all customers.
Edwin Kruse
Network Services Manager
TWC San Diego
Dear Road Runner Customer,
Thank you for subscribing to Road Runner High-Speed Online. Beginning on
10/20/05 customers who only subscribe to Road Runner High-Speed Online,
and do not subscribe to any other video services from Time Warner Cable,
will pay $49.95 per month for Road Runner High-Speed Online.
We sincerely appreciate your business and would like to highlight the
features and extras that continue to make Road Runner High-Speed Online
an even greater value. Road Runner now comes with AOL! You can add AOL’s
first-rate content (a $14.95 per month value) to your blazing-fast Road
Runner high-speed Internet connection. Already an AOL customer? With
Road Runner you get the best of both services. You keep your current AOL
IM and e-mail addresses – all from Time Warner Cable, for no extra charge.
Road Runner with AOL benefits:*
Security: The most comprehensive set of automatic safety and security
tools available are always on guard to make your fast connection safer
so you can surf the Web with greater confidence.
Exclusive Content: Road Runner with AOL brings you online access to
first-rate and exclusive content.
AOL Radio: Road Runner with AOL has the music to get your high-speed
Internet connection rocking.
AOL® Radio lets you choose from 200+ stations of commercial-free,
CD-quality music, news and sports plus over 70 XM® Satellite channels.
AOL Music Live: Your high-speed Internet connection can get you
there—but only Road Runner with AOL can get you in the door. AOL® Music
Live—an original weekly concert series—gives you a front-row ticket
to live online concerts from today’s hottest artists.
Video Mail: Road Runner Video Mail* gives you an exciting new way to
keep in touch with family and friends–either across town or across the
country.
Video IM: Tired of typing? Start talking. Now Road Runner with AOL, you
can have live video conversations via IM. All you need is Microsoft®
Windows® XP, a microphone and Webcam.
Computer Check-Up: Computer Check-Up from Road Runner with AOL fixes PC
problemsfast—automatically.
Picture Center: Turn your blazing-fast Internet connection into your own
digital photo studio. Picture Center gives you unlimited storage space
and makes it easy to edit and share your digital pictures.
Games: Road Runner with AOL turns your existing blazing-fast Internet
connection into a total gaming experience. You can play online card,
word, video games and more.
Unlimited E-mail Storage: With AOL you get unlimited space to store your
e-mails so you can save all the messages you want.
Parental Controls: Road Runner with AOL helps keep your kids safer
online. Easy-to-use Parental Controls let you be the boss—without being
the bad guy.
Road Runner with AOL gives you so many extras all at incredible speeds
and for one terrific price.
Road Runner High-Speed Online is just one of the technological
innovations brought to you by Time Warner Cable. You can keep or even
lower your monthly Road Runner rate by adding additional services like
Digital Cable, Digital Phone, or by simply adding our 20 channels of
Local Basic service for less than $12.00 a month. Call us to find the
best package for you.
Cordially,
Time Warner Cable

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month. Everyone knows that DSL is not
equivalent for those rocket fast download speeds, but what is TW
thinking in raising rates when the rest of the industry is lowering
them? I mean seriously, this is as misguided a marketing scheme as I
have ever seen.
They used to charge $5 more per month unless you had at least basic
cable. They could not justify that when they removed the ONLY reason
I had cable which was the Padres, at which time the price was the same
whether you had cable TV or not. As a long time DirecTV subscriber,
it didn't make sense to me to pay for upgraded cable service for
duplicate channels only to receive the Pads. Now, when I can get SBC
DSL for $15/month, now less than a third what RR charges, you are
providing me the best reason ever to dump cable entirely including RR.
How many customers will TW need to lose in order to realize that this
is a huge mistake?

[Dave Somers]

Almost forgot - before anyone tries the "other companies offer
discounts for bundled services" blurb, if that were the case, rather
than increasing non-cable TV users cost, you would LOWER the cost by
$5 for all cable users. That is something that I feel would be fair
and I'm guessing that most TW customers would as well. I would gladly
continue to pay a higher rate knowing that TW is engaging in ethical
business practices and providing true value to their customers rather
than the sort of sneaky increase in cost you are now doing. It's not
the $5, it's the slap in the face to longtime customers (and I would
venture a guess that I have had RR longer than anyone here - those
that know me will understand that statement)

Think about this: TW also offers digital phone service (another vital
infrastructural capability I would just as soon not trust to an
entertainment provider). What would you all think if they increased
your RR fees by $5 if you didn't buy their phone service? TW can more
easily sell the notion that there is a relationship between the ISP
and Cable TV serices since they view both as entertainment. In
reality, an ISP is much more akin to a dial-up telephone service
provider than a TV broadcaster but it would be marketing suicide to
slap a $5 surcharge on their fledgling phone service. But once a
critical mass of subscribers to the phone service is acheived you can
bet the pseudo-bundling will include that as well..

Dave

Post by Dave Somers
Hi Edwin,
That's what bothers me so much! I paid for basic cable for several
years even though I didn't use it since I am a DirecTV customer
**just** to watch the Padres. I was willing to pay $20/month for
channel 4 alone and, at that time also, $5 less for RR. Then TW took
the Pads off of Basic cable. There was NO way I could justify $50 a
month for just channel 4 so I dumped cable TV altogether. Now you
guys are bringing back the $5 "penalty" for not being a cable TV user.
As Turko would say, "That ain't right!" TW is purposely penalizing
satellite TV users by charging more for a completely unrelated service
(not to mention monopolizing the Padres - Hey, I paid for their
stadium, too!). Something stinks here. And speaking of Turko....
Dave

Post by Edwin Kruse
Just for clarification here is the letter and the increase is only for
those customers with RR only, not all customers.
Edwin Kruse
Network Services Manager
TWC San Diego
Dear Road Runner Customer,
Thank you for subscribing to Road Runner High-Speed Online. Beginning on
10/20/05 customers who only subscribe to Road Runner High-Speed Online,
and do not subscribe to any other video services from Time Warner Cable,
will pay $49.95 per month for Road Runner High-Speed Online.
We sincerely appreciate your business and would like to highlight the
features and extras that continue to make Road Runner High-Speed Online
an even greater value. Road Runner now comes with AOL! You can add AOL’s
first-rate content (a $14.95 per month value) to your blazing-fast Road
Runner high-speed Internet connection. Already an AOL customer? With
Road Runner you get the best of both services. You keep your current AOL
IM and e-mail addresses – all from Time Warner Cable, for no extra charge.
Road Runner with AOL benefits:*
Security: The most comprehensive set of automatic safety and security
tools available are always on guard to make your fast connection safer
so you can surf the Web with greater confidence.
Exclusive Content: Road Runner with AOL brings you online access to
first-rate and exclusive content.
AOL Radio: Road Runner with AOL has the music to get your high-speed
Internet connection rocking.
AOL® Radio lets you choose from 200+ stations of commercial-free,
CD-quality music, news and sports plus over 70 XM® Satellite channels.
AOL Music Live: Your high-speed Internet connection can get you
there—but only Road Runner with AOL can get you in the door. AOL® Music
Live—an original weekly concert series—gives you a front-row ticket
to live online concerts from today’s hottest artists.
Video Mail: Road Runner Video Mail* gives you an exciting new way to
keep in touch with family and friends–either across town or across the
country.
Video IM: Tired of typing? Start talking. Now Road Runner with AOL, you
can have live video conversations via IM. All you need is Microsoft®
Windows® XP, a microphone and Webcam.
Computer Check-Up: Computer Check-Up from Road Runner with AOL fixes PC
problemsfast—automatically.
Picture Center: Turn your blazing-fast Internet connection into your own
digital photo studio. Picture Center gives you unlimited storage space
and makes it easy to edit and share your digital pictures.
Games: Road Runner with AOL turns your existing blazing-fast Internet
connection into a total gaming experience. You can play online card,
word, video games and more.
Unlimited E-mail Storage: With AOL you get unlimited space to store your
e-mails so you can save all the messages you want.
Parental Controls: Road Runner with AOL helps keep your kids safer
online. Easy-to-use Parental Controls let you be the boss—without being
the bad guy.
Road Runner with AOL gives you so many extras all at incredible speeds
and for one terrific price.
Road Runner High-Speed Online is just one of the technological
innovations brought to you by Time Warner Cable. You can keep or even
lower your monthly Road Runner rate by adding additional services like
Digital Cable, Digital Phone, or by simply adding our 20 channels of
Local Basic service for less than $12.00 a month. Call us to find the
best package for you.
Cordially,
Time Warner Cable

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month. Everyone knows that DSL is not
equivalent for those rocket fast download speeds, but what is TW
thinking in raising rates when the rest of the industry is lowering
them? I mean seriously, this is as misguided a marketing scheme as I
have ever seen.
They used to charge $5 more per month unless you had at least basic
cable. They could not justify that when they removed the ONLY reason
I had cable which was the Padres, at which time the price was the same
whether you had cable TV or not. As a long time DirecTV subscriber,
it didn't make sense to me to pay for upgraded cable service for
duplicate channels only to receive the Pads. Now, when I can get SBC
DSL for $15/month, now less than a third what RR charges, you are
providing me the best reason ever to dump cable entirely including RR.
How many customers will TW need to lose in order to realize that this
is a huge mistake?

[Scott Lindner]

You're right, it ain't right. It's because TWC is using their government
granted monopoly position for television cable services abusively to enhance
their position in the ISP market. It isn't right and this topic has had
federal attention for over five years.

[Purple Moose]

Post by Scott Lindner
You're right, it ain't right. It's because TWC is using their
government granted monopoly position for television cable services
abusively to enhance their position in the ISP market. It isn't right
and this topic has had federal attention for over five years.

Actually, the government granted monopoly is controlled by the City of San
Diego and other municipalities via franchising. The feds simply give them
the right to do it.

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Purple Moose
Actually, the government granted monopoly is controlled by the City of San
Diego and other municipalities via franchising. The feds simply give them
the right to do it.

Correct. But it is the FTC and FCC that should be making sure there are no
abuses. They don't seem to be doing a very good job. Obviously that's why
this very topic has been talked about for five years now.

[Purple Moose]

Post by Scott Lindner
Correct. But it is the FTC and FCC that should be making sure there
are no abuses.

Really? As I understand it, that's not particularly in their legal purvue
under the re-regulation of the cable industry in 1992. The granting of
cable franchises is completely optional at the local level. The City of San
Diego COULD grant overlapping franchises to Cox, TW and whoever. The
problem is similar to the utilities though -- who owns the lines?

The FCC ain't gonna get this solved by itself. It can't. It's going to take
Congress basically making cable into an open access distribution system
like long distance is for your phone service.

[Jim Parsons]

TW Cable is a classic unregulated monopoly at the local level - The City
of San Diego is a total joke when it comes to any kind of regulation. At
least with gas and electric utilities you have the CA. Public Utilities
regulating, for good or for bad, literally everything - customer service,
pricing, reliability, etc.

I'm not compaining - I've been a satisfied TW Cable (or Southwest before
that) for 8 1/2 years now...

Post by Purple Moose

Post by Scott Lindner
Correct. But it is the FTC and FCC that should be making sure there
are no abuses.

Really? As I understand it, that's not particularly in their legal purvue
under the re-regulation of the cable industry in 1992. The granting of
cable franchises is completely optional at the local level. The City of San
Diego COULD grant overlapping franchises to Cox, TW and whoever. The
problem is similar to the utilities though -- who owns the lines?
The FCC ain't gonna get this solved by itself. It can't. It's going to take
Congress basically making cable into an open access distribution system
like long distance is for your phone service.

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Purple Moose
The City
of San Diego is a total joke when it comes to any kind of regulation.

And that is exactly why TWC can conitnue its abuse.

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Purple Moose
Really? As I understand it, that's not particularly in their legal purvue
under the re-regulation of the cable industry in 1992. The granting of
cable franchises is completely optional at the local level. The City of San
Diego COULD grant overlapping franchises to Cox, TW and whoever. The
problem is similar to the utilities though -- who owns the lines?

You're mixing two concepts here. What is real today and what should be
happening. The FTC IS by its very definition supposed to be preventing
abusive monopolies. That IS ITS JOB! The FCC, that's a different
situation. Maybe it is involved, or maybe it isn't. What is true is that
it is left up to the municipality.

Post by Purple Moose
The FCC ain't gonna get this solved by itself. It can't. It's going to take
Congress basically making cable into an open access distribution system
like long distance is for your phone service.

True, but the FTC can solve it rather quickly.

This is not a new argument. It's been argued over and over. When you read
the minutes of these discussions I always wonder why they take no action.
It seems so obvious. Other people with the legal and investigative skills
have written very excellent papers on why companies like TWC are abusing the
laws in ways that they were not intended. Our situation in San Diego is
proof of it.

Scott

[Purple Moose]

Post by Scott Lindner
True, but the FTC can solve it rather quickly.

Disagree. The FTC deals with interstate monopolies NOT intrastate which is
what TW and Cox are. SDGE is a monopoly. The Metro Water District is a
monopoly. Think about it.

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Purple Moose
Disagree. The FTC deals with interstate monopolies NOT intrastate which is
what TW and Cox are. SDGE is a monopoly. The Metro Water District is a
monopoly. Think about it.

Interesting point. Even though TWC is a national company that is abusing
its monopoly status across the nation, since it is granted on a local basis
it wouldn't be an FTC issue.

I am obviously thinking about it since I've been following this topic for
years. You're taking things out of context and not even applying them
correctly. TWC is abusing its monoply status as a cable TV provider to
position itself unfairly in its ISP business. That is the issue. No need
to be a jerk.

Scott

[[e-mail]]

Post by Dave Somers
I just received the not so happy message from TW that the RR service
price is increasing by $5/month.

*INCREASE*???? They're NUTS. The trend elsewhere is LOWER prices than
we're getting, for HIGHER bandwidth than we're getting! They're already
overpriced!

And this, after a 2 1/2 hour downtime in Mira Mesa yesterday, with
695-3220 solid busy!

What a perfect way to piss off customers and make them more actively
hunt down better deals.

If the City Council didn't have their heads up their nether regions,
worrying about preserving their nether regions, I'd suggest lobbying
them to cancel Time Warner's franchise.

[stevech]

Without Competition There Is No Excellence.

To Wit:
TWC
Microsoft

[Darren New]

Post by Edwin Kruse
TWC
Microsoft

I dunno. Both TWC and Microsoft work great for me. Maybe you're
expecting more than can be economically provided.

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Darren New
I dunno. Both TWC and Microsoft work great for me. Maybe you're
expecting more than can be economically provided.

Look at history. Every time monopolies are broken up innovation and
competition takes off. It's usually better for the corporation's bottom
line as well as it renews consumer interest.

M$'s a bloated megacorp that couldn't innovate a piece of burnt toast.

[doubter]

Post by Scott Lindner
Look at history. Every time monopolies are broken up innovation and
competition takes off. It's usually better for the corporation's bottom
line as well as it renews consumer interest.

I fully agree with your assessment of the increase in innovation and
resulting benefit to the consumer. However some companies are so
intrenched in their monopolistic ways they are not capable of surviving in
a competitive world. AT&T is the prime example and is now virtually a dead
company and will likely cease to exist when SBC completes the purchase of
AT&T.

[Darren New]

Post by doubter
intrenched in their monopolistic ways they are not capable of surviving in
a competitive world. AT&T is the prime example

Had AT&T been allowed to be competitive along with everyone else, they
may have survived nicely. The MFJ required AT&T and the baby bells to be
non-competitive.

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Darren New
Had AT&T been allowed to be competitive along with everyone else, they
may have survived nicely. The MFJ required AT&T and the baby bells to be
non-competitive.

I don't know much of the history and facts around the AT&T break up. What
in the world was the motivation to keep them from competing? Isn't that the
same problem all over again?

[Darren New]

Post by Scott Lindner
I don't know much of the history and facts around the AT&T break up. What
in the world was the motivation to keep them from competing?

Well, because (a) they were a monopoly and (b) competition would
normally mean some people just wouldn't get phone service because they
had no money.

AT&T had the responsibility of servicing every account that was
unprofitable to service.

And, btw, before you point out that AT&T as a monoply wasn't innovative,
remember to thank them for the LED, the laser, the transistor, the
integrated circut, insulated wire, and about 15,000 other inventions
you've never paid any patent license fees for but which impact your life
daily.

Oh, and remember to thank them for bringing the cost of a
trans-continental call from something like $700/minute down to
$0.07/minute over the course of fifty years.

Post by Scott Lindner
Isn't that the same problem all over again?

Uh, no. Just the opposite. They not only didn't get to be a monopoly,
they also didn't get to be competitive. They still got all the price
regulations, requirements on servicing unprofitable accounts,
injunctions against manufacturing or selling equipment, injunctions
against installing CPE, and so on, but without the benefit of being
assured the highly-profitable accounts, control over who got access to
their own equipment, profit from innovative inventions, and so on.

[Scott Lindner]

Post by Darren New
Well, because (a) they were a monopoly and (b) competition would
normally mean some people just wouldn't get phone service because they
had no money.
AT&T had the responsibility of servicing every account that was
unprofitable to service.

I get it. The motivation makes sense now. Sucks for AT&T.

Post by Darren New
And, btw, before you point out that AT&T as a monoply wasn't innovative,
remember to thank them for the LED, the laser, the transistor, the
integrated circut, insulated wire, and about 15,000 other inventions
you've never paid any patent license fees for but which impact your life
daily.

I know a lot about the technology contributions by AT&T. My undergrad is a
BSEE. I've read lots about AT&T in my texts. Even the basic principals of
computer networking were closely guarded by AT&T for over 15 years before it
began being used more widely.

Post by Darren New
Uh, no. Just the opposite. They not only didn't get to be a monopoly,
they also didn't get to be competitive. They still got all the price
regulations, requirements on servicing unprofitable accounts,
injunctions against manufacturing or selling equipment, injunctions
against installing CPE, and so on, but without the benefit of being
assured the highly-profitable accounts, control over who got access to
their own equipment, profit from innovative inventions, and so on.

I think this is a repeat of my first comment to this post. I didn't know
the motivation. It was the same reason for all regulated monopolies. In my
opinion the motivation for the regulation should be re-evaluated on a
regular basis to make sure the motivation still exists.

Scott

[doubter]

Post by Darren New

Post by doubter
intrenched in their monopolistic ways they are not capable of surviving in
a competitive world. AT&T is the prime example

Had AT&T been allowed to be competitive along with everyone else, they
may have survived nicely. The MFJ required AT&T and the baby bells to be
non-competitive.

True for the baby bells, but not true for AT&T in the post divestiture long
distance market. NO ONE forced AT&T to charge $2.70 per minute for a call
to South Africa when the same call was readily available from others for
$.35 per minute. (This was several years ago and I thought things had
changed...)

[a call to AT&T for information]

I just called AT&T and asked for their standard rate to SA. Was quoted a
standard rate of $3.99/minute and an "economy" rate of $3.01/minute. I pay
7 CENTS/minute with no taxes, connection fees, or monthly charges. Of
course AT&T has plans, with a monthly fee, that offer heavy discounted
rates. Darren, you and I both know enough to shop around. But the poor
sap who has relatives visiting there and wants to call them will likely
just pick up the phone and call 011+27+... and get socked for over three
bucks a minute.

I would suggest that AT&T still has not been able to shake their
monopolistic mind set and truly face the realities of a competitive market
place. There is a reason AT&T Cellular is no long around. AT&T long
distance is soon to meet the same fate, although SBC *might* feel there is
still value in the AT&T name and opt to retain it for the LD services.

[Darren New]

Post by doubter
I would suggest that AT&T still has not been able to shake their
monopolistic mind set and truly face the realities of a competitive market
place.

And the true realities of a competitive market include providing barely
adequate service. I've used the low-cost services. I'd say 1/3 of the
time, the line is busy simply because it's under-provisioned.

Plus, it's rough to take a company that 5 years ago you said had to plan
30 years ahead, then say "Bingo, now you have to compete with companies
who are allowed to buy the latest equipment and replace it whenever it's
cost effective to do so. And to use yours, at your cost, when it's not
cost-effective for them to provide their own."

Not that I'm saying AT&T is uncompetitive. I'm saying part of the reason
they are uncompetitive is the regulations that required them to be so
and had long-term effects on the installation of huge amounts of
infrastructure. You wouldn't even have a wire from your house to the CO
if AT&T hadn't been a monopoly. There's just no money in it. That line
from your house to your CO costs an average of $600/year to maintain. If
you don't subsidize that with the profitable calls (like $3/minute to
africa and business calls from office buildings that spend $10K/month on
phone charges) you lose money. Why do you think payphones were $0.05 and
$0.10 for 50 years, and when you unregulated them they're up at the
$0.75 to $1.00 per call range?

I.e., lots of what AT&T did, they did the expensive, long-term way,
which would be unprofitable if you had competition. Once they were given
competition, they were not surprisingly unprofitable.

An equivalent would be the government telling the post office that all
mail had to be sorted by hand in order to provide jobs. Then, after
there were 300,000 people working for the monoply post office union,
along comes UPS and starts to compete.

[Scott Lindner]

Post by doubter
I fully agree with your assessment of the increase in innovation and
resulting benefit to the consumer. However some companies are so
intrenched in their monopolistic ways they are not capable of surviving in
a competitive world. AT&T is the prime example and is now virtually a dead
company and will likely cease to exist when SBC completes the purchase of
AT&T.

Good point. But our laws and society is not intended to guarantee that an
unsuccessful company can still enjoy remaining profitable. If it's dead..
we should let it die. AOL should have died long ago. I blows my mind that
people have been paying for it for so long.